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Post by haywiregrenade on Dec 14, 2013 10:13:37 GMT
Hi all,
So an exciting or game breaking set of releases in the past 7 days has the inter webs crying/exciting/rage quitting all over the place and we have not even started to discuss here!
Whats all that about?
So a few questions and opinions needed I think.
1. Escalation and Stronghold are "legal" for all official GW events. What are your thoughts on this? Will you be using them at your own clubs un-modified or will you only play if the opponent consents etc?
2. FW have buffed the Lords of War list with all their models. You will now find Phantom Titans in regular games (obviously it has to be a large game!) but more likely you will be finding Revenants, Heirodules, and Greater Daemons opposite you wrapped in Void Shields.
3. What are the most ridiculous combinations seen or read about yet? I have seen the Maugen Ra, Manning the giant Eagle Cannon thing, with the Dataslate of Riptide/Broadside suits with Coteaz, then add the required tools needed to fulfil the force org. This then gives some crazy stuff. As the Eagle gun is emplaced, it can be operated by Maugen, who has fast shot. That doubles your number of D cannon shots. Coteaz and the Riptide/briadside with full sky fire/intercept etc etc. Sounds like fun right? Admittedly no more fun than playing against death star units of win. So what else have you read about or want to try? Psychic powers work on super heavies now as that rule in Apoc did not make it across to Escalation. So yes you can now buff your Eldar stuff with prescience and all that kind of stuff! I am sure there are some filthy Nid combos here that will hurt too.
Have at it boys and girls!
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Post by Harkon Greywolf on Dec 14, 2013 11:57:15 GMT
 More incentive to play Fantasy or Necromunda or something else without "Uber" lists made by adolescent boys who want to win at all costs rather than play for fun! Not sure I'll bother to be honest! |
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Post by Stretch on Dec 14, 2013 13:19:04 GMT
Played in the right way it can add a nice little extra dimension. I've been coupling it with a few bits from planet strike to make some very cinematic games. I think it does lend itself to the narrative campaign side more than just a pick up game
As you say Bob, there will always be those who use it to just max out a list to win no matter what. Those people soon run out of people to play against
In answer to your questions boss:
1. It generally needs a bit more planning. The smaller fortifications aren't so much of a problem. Superheavies and big fortifications change the game dynamic quite a bit.
2. I just think marines need an in-between Superheavy. Not everyone can afford a thunderhawk ;-)
3. I've not had a proper go at concocting an uber unit but if I see any or come up with one I'll let you know
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Post by doomzombie on Dec 14, 2013 16:07:23 GMT
I`m with Bob, i`m in the hobby to have fun and enjoy myself with like minded people. Those who play with only winning on there minds, are not worth my time.................
Doom....
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Post by haywiregrenade on Dec 14, 2013 17:11:02 GMT
But the WAAC have been around for ever equally as they are now.
My store guys are a great example of this. We know uber lists exist, we just choose never to use them.
The same will go for us with this new set of expansions.
Death Star lists exist now, and its people who run those that seem to be the ones complaining the most because their carefully concocted broken list has now been undone in a single statement - D is legal.
My opinion is that this is another set of guidelines to play a new mechanic within 40k. As long as you both agree to use them, then thats cool, but for pick up games v's strangers, this is not good news if you face the revenant inside the Skyshield with fortune cast on it and so on.
The anger hate and rage quit all over the shop is so knee jerk. It happens every edition, every codex and every supplement.
40k has always been a participation game, you play with the opponent and not against them. That way you have the most fun.
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Post by Stretch on Dec 15, 2013 10:19:58 GMT
40k has always been a participation game, you play with the opponent and not against them. That way you have the most fun. That's why I like playing with you guys on here. We must be due for a game soon boss |
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Post by Geifer on Dec 15, 2013 10:22:20 GMT
Hi all, So an exciting or game breaking set of releases in the past 7 days has the inter webs crying/exciting/rage quitting all over the place and we have not even started to discuss here! Whats all that about? Had I( not been busy co-organizing wacky 40k pre-Christmas game marathon at my local store, I'd have posted my thoughts already. I love my bunker book and I hug it and I know it loves me back.  As for thos questions: 1. I will use Stronghold Assault. As the resident Son of Dorn, I think I may be the only one who has any recognizable level of exitement about this, but I guess others may come around if they find the fortification that suits them best. Frankly the only thing that has made an appearance around here is the Aegis. Everyone uses that. I think I'm the only one who brought a landing pad or bastion along a couple of times. I don't think Stronghold Assault wiill have any difficulties being accepted among my group, with the possible exception of the big bird bunker (see below). Escalation? The thing is, we aren't really into this whole deathstar thing. A tough unit led by a dead 'ard character every once in a while, sure, but nothing as optimized as you would find in tournaments. People do like to have armies in their armies and not have them consist of one big thing and a sad bunch of supporting scoring units. As such I have no idea how escalation will delvelop around here. Also the German book isn't out until April, which is a bit of a hindrance for some guys who haven't had the good fortune to learn English very well. Therefore for us it'll probably be a while before it becomes clear how much acceptance Escalation will find around here. Personally I don't have a problem with it, to a degree. The big question is D weapons. I can't see them being much fun for the opponent. The inability to use any ability to protect against a D shot will be frustrating for those armies that pay good points for extra protection. Archon with 2+ invulnerable save? Dead on 2+. Necrons with reanimation protocols? Dead on 2+. Ork boys for cheap with no protection at all? Dead on 2+. I don't see how these are balanced. Horde armies couldn't care less and elite armies get punished by throwing away points for things they will never use. This kind of thing has happened before. Grey Knights got their codex and were made balanced against all armies, compared to their Daemonhunters incarnation, but retained extra abilities against Daemons. Not a problem for all the other armies, but people either stopped using Daemons altogether or declined games against Grey Knights if they stuck with their Daemons, as it was a pointless exercise of showing up and getting blasted off the board. We like the idea that any army can beat any other army, and while balance will never be perfect, I can't see a weapon class that works well against some armies but really great against others become very popular. Now I don't think we will pin a gamer's etiquette sheet on the wall that explicitly bans D weapons, but I do believe people who want to use them will have a hard time finding a game. Me? I have no intention of using D weapons outside Apocalypse, and not much drive to use them in Apocalypse unless the model I want to use has no choice but to take it (like the Aquila bunker). I can't see these weapons being fun for my opponent, and if they don't enjoy the game, neither will I. So nobody wins if I bring along D weapons. So what's the point in taking them? Caveat? Some, myself included, do have a good time letting wanton destruction reign supreme. Pre-arranged, I'm willing to give D weapons a chance. 2. Forgeworld has a selection of smaller Lords of War, which isn't really the case with GW plastics. Try finding something for less than 500pts. Pay your 888 points of respect to Khorne and you won't have much else in your army in games below 2000pts. While I have no problem with this, I can see smaller super heavies being a more popular choice. Some people already have trouble justifying the 250pts you need to shell out for a Land Raider without decreasing their army size too much. I as the owner of zero Forgeworld kits don't get any use of the expanded list, but I certainly don't mind it being an option. 3. Honestly? I don't care for rdiculous combinations, so I don't go looking for them. I'm not averse to making things tough to beat, but not at the expense of army theme, which naturally stops me from bringing stupidly effective combos to games. Psychic powers working against super heavies is neat, though. Puppet mastering a Baneblade might be fun. I don't believe I've even seen a rule against it in the new Apocalypse book. You may be thinking of last edition Apocalypse. |
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Post by badfang on Dec 15, 2013 11:53:29 GMT
When I saw this I immediately thought KLAWSTOMPA, using the IA8 kustom builder a stompa starts at 350 - of course, I'd forgotten that you have to buy the CCWs separately taking a bare knuckle version up to 400, and try as I might I can't get an HQ and two troops for less than 115 - Zogga. When I was having an 'oh, well' look at what might have been, I noticed that D weapons don't modify invulnerable saves or cause instant death to models that are immune to ID, furthermore there's nothing that says a stomp attack has an AP value. This is all based on the original (5th Ed) book, can't be bothered shelling out on a new book to see if they got it right this time, but the idea of a regular marine having a 200 ton war machine stomp on his head and, 2 times out of 3, simply dig himself out of his impromptu foxhole and carry on as though nothing happened leads me to conclude that when GW said 'cinematic' they must have been thinking 'Loony Tunes'.
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Post by haywiregrenade on Dec 16, 2013 12:50:42 GMT
Not 100% sure what you mean Badfang!
Fairly sure that Stomp (which is D3 small blast templates now repping footprints) has an AP. Going back to 5th is going to confuse things here!
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Post by badfang on Dec 16, 2013 17:12:59 GMT
Well, if you're deliberately looking for a broken army list, a Klawstompa in a 500 (and fifteen) point 'Patrol' list is a joy unto itself.
And, D weapons aren't as scary (or weren't in 5th) as they should be, OK I can see Superman, the Hulk, Iron Man etc getting up after being punched by a Titan class CCW, and also Bugs Bunny, Taz, Wile E Coyote.....
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Post by haywiregrenade on Dec 16, 2013 22:43:09 GMT
Is the klawstompa a legal choice? Is it a Stompa with 2 CCW's or something? I am not overly familiar with Orks at Superheavy levels.
Str D removes anything not gargantuan or superheavy on a 2+.
On a superheavy or gargantuan it takes D3+1 wounds/structure for 2-5 and D6+6 off for a 6 on the vehicle damage table.
Superheavies do not suffer any secondary results (stunned/shaken/drive train etc at all) when hit. They just lose hull points for a glance and a pen and only take D3 points on a 6 on the damage table. So exceptionally resilient!
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Post by badfang on Dec 16, 2013 23:21:20 GMT
Using (the 5th ed) IA8 custom build table, you pay 350 for the basic stompa and then must add left and right arm weapons, the cheapest of which are CCWs, which turns it into a klawstompa with various additional rules. Given that, I read a game legal army to be HQ + 2 Troops + anything else. These'll be from the new book? It does sound a lot more like it, maybe I will shell out for it then |
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Post by haywiregrenade on Dec 16, 2013 23:51:45 GMT
Yup new Apoc book or Escalation contains the same info.
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Post by Geifer on Dec 26, 2013 9:42:56 GMT
Stronhold Assault, too, if you are only interested in the rules for D weapons. They're included in the book, as opposed to other rules for super heavy, because the big bird bunker has D strength weapons. December is a month for special occasion games at my local store, but in January I think I may get the chance to use a Wall of Martyrs defense network. I love fortifications and can't wait to see how it goes. |
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Post by paladin7221 on Dec 26, 2013 23:02:12 GMT
I'm just gutted that Chaos can't use an IG superheavy with marines.....
The idea of a Stormlord rocking up, blasting everything to pieces and then 30 plus Khorne loonies bomb into the enemy front line somehow appeals to me on a visceral level.
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More incentive to play Fantasy or Necromunda or something else without "Uber" lists made by adolescent boys who want to win at all costs rather than play for fun! 
