Dreads, Tank Shock, "ensuing assault phase"

[eiglepulper]

I was asked earlier today by a mate whether you can Tank Shock a dreadnought. The answer of course is yes, as per P.84 BRB. I then got to reading a bit more closely into the text concerning Ramming - pp.84 and 86 - and came across this interesting phrase:

"..in the ensuing Assault Phase."

Now this got me wondering. The rules give the option that the Dreadnought has survived the Ramming event and therefore the vehicle which rammed it is now at a halt in base contact with the Dreadnought. The complete sentence says:

If it survives, the Walker can then attack the Tank in the ensuing Assault Phase"

I got to asking myself: whose assault phase does this actually happen in - the player whose Tank has just performed the Ram, or the Dreadnought player's turn? The word "ensuing" means "coming next" or "after", according to the Collins English Dictionary, and I just am not sure if this therefore indicates that a Dreadnought which has successfully avoided destruction through being rammed can then whack the Tank that rammed it in the assault phase of the Tank's owning player, rather than waiting till its own turn's assault phase. In other words, one of those "out of normal sequence" type events that the 6th Ed book is at pains to point out to us at various times.

Would someone like to try and unravel what I'm talking about here and see what they think?

[Farseer Kyladras]

No basis in RAW but from a RAI viewpoint I would say the dreadnought/ walker should get to attack in the opposing player's assault phase as though the ramming tank has `assaulted` the dread/ walker. Otherwise the tank could just drive off with no chance of repercussion from cheekily ramming into a massive armoured walking tank! You go around driving your vehicle into dreadnoughts you got to expect some road rage attacks back at you...

FK

[Harkon Greywolf]

Agree with FK.
But no, I do not know the 6th Ed rules well enough to support that opinion with rules fact.

HG

[eiglepulper]

Thanks, guys. It's what makes sense. It also depends on what way you translate "ensuing" as well, I guess, but my translation comes from looking at it from the point of view of a combat. The two units come together, and in the "ensuing" combat one unit gets mauled. That means "immediately after coming together". Transpose this to the Tank ramming the Dread. The Dread survives and immediately gets to smack the tank, , since the Dread cannot make a Death or Glory attack (specifically stated in the rules). The Death or Glory attempt normally occurs in the enemy movement phase, so why not have an version for surviving Walkers which occurs in the enemy assault phase instead since they can't DoG? That's the way I'm thinking anyway.

Maybe some other folks would like to chip in with their opinions too, although I think it's probably going to boil down to RAW vs RAI in the end.

R.

[Geifer]

Vehicles cannot be locked in combat like non-vehicle units. However, they may still be hit in the close combat phase even if no assault occured on that turn if they did not move out of base contact. This is how it's generally is.

In the case of ramming that means that on the same player turn the vehicle rammed the Dreadnought, the Dreadnought may then in that turn's close combat phase hit the vehicle following all the normal rules (fighting against a moved vehicle, striking back armor, and so on). And this will go on until the end of the game until either model moves out of base contact or is destroyed.

[eiglepulper]

Thank you, Geifer.

R.

[badfang]

Possibly a bit superfluous now but models can't move within an inch of an enemy model unless they are assaulting (or tank shocking which is a 'vehicular assault') and if they are in 'base contact' with each other then they both get to fight in the assault phase (unless they have no WS characteristic eg a tank) so the dredd would get to fight.

Or

Short version - 'what Geifer said'

[eiglepulper]

Thank you too, badfang.

R.

[haywiregrenade]

Yes what Geifer said! Models in base contact with vehicles attack in their own phase and the opponents phase. Similar that a squad assaults a vehicle in their phase. It has a power fist. It only immobilises the vehicle. Vehicle cannot drive away. Im the tank owning players assault phase the power fist can hit again this time the tank counts as WS0.
Same thing here with the ramming tank into the walker.