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Post by Geifer on Nov 8, 2014 16:04:27 GMT
Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody could put up a side by side picture of a Bolt Action soldier (preferably German because of the gear, but I'll take whatever I can get) next to a Guardsman or Space Marine? Tried my luck with Google, but reading this you can probably guess how that turned out. Disclaimer: this is for purely theoretical, scientific purposes. I'm not planning anything. Especially not anything devious. Honest.
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Post by Brassaxe on Nov 9, 2014 0:45:08 GMT
Been kroozin' the net looking to see if any other forums have already got the desired pikkies (no luck I'm afraid) so I went on WarLords site and had a look at the options (and prices). This got me thinking in terms of 'Well, a 28mm figure is going to be 28mm, a 1/72 figure is going to be 1 inch (25.4mm) so unless people are desperate for the extra 2.6mm hight, 1/72 provides a lot more options for considerably less outlay'. For instance www.emodels.co.uk/hat-1-72-wwii-japanese-bicycle-infantry-8278-plastic-model-kit.html 12 of these for £4.49, for £50.00 you could take Singapore! Any concerns about stability could be addressed by gluing the figures to 6mm washers and 1/72 scale infantry and vehicles from all factions and bombed out scenery is commonplace enough that all anyone really needs is the rulebook as long as you're playing in a closed group.
Just a thought
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Post by ghostwalker on Nov 9, 2014 18:05:49 GMT
Can't do a shot showing the difference as i no longer own any gw marines or guard. But there is a fair difference in the models as GW's are heroic scale and their army, torsos and heads are much larger than the 'humanly' scaled 28mm bolt action minis.
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Post by Geifer on Nov 10, 2014 9:29:58 GMT
Been kroozin' the net looking to see if any other forums have already got the desired pikkies (no luck I'm afraid) so I went on WarLords site and had a look at the options (and prices). This got me thinking in terms of 'Well, a 28mm figure is going to be 28mm, a 1/72 figure is going to be 1 inch (25.4mm) so unless people are desperate for the extra 2.6mm hight, 1/72 provides a lot more options for considerably less outlay'. For instance www.emodels.co.uk/hat-1-72-wwii-japanese-bicycle-infantry-8278-plastic-model-kit.html 12 of these for £4.49, for £50.00 you could take Singapore! Any concerns about stability could be addressed by gluing the figures to 6mm washers and 1/72 scale infantry and vehicles from all factions and bombed out scenery is commonplace enough that all anyone really needs is the rulebook as long as you're playing in a closed group.
Just a thought I'm mostly concerned with getting my own sculpts right, really. I've been scultping models with GW proportions in mind for so long that I'm not sure I'd get more realistic proportions right. Well, it's more that I'm already trying to have a compromise between GW proportions and realistic ones, I'm just not familiar with Warlord's take on realistic proportions and how they look next to what I've been doing. I mean, sure, I could wait for a couple fo weeks until I get my own models, but... I can't wait. I want to sculpt something now, ideally without the model looking like Heinz the Hulking Hun. Can't do a shot showing the difference as i no longer own any gw marines or guard. But there is a fair difference in the models as GW's are heroic scale and their army, torsos and heads are much larger than the 'humanly' scaled 28mm bolt action minis. Any hint will do. If you could tell me hip and chest width in millimeters, that would already help me a lot. Or thigh width. You know, just so I get an idea of proportion. That would be great.
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Post by Brassaxe on Nov 10, 2014 17:53:23 GMT
I'm mostly concerned with getting my own sculpts right, really. I've been scultping models with GW proportions in mind for so long that I'm not sure I'd get more realistic proportions right. Well, it's more that I'm already trying to have a compromise between GW proportions and realistic ones, I'm just not familiar with Warlord's take on realistic proportions and how they look next to what I've been doing. In all honesty, I'm not that taken by WarLords sculpts either Going back to the 1/72 kits available, most manufacturers do a pretty good job on getting the details right including the physical dimensions, and since the 2.6mm difference between 1/72 and 28mm is about 10%, using the 1/72 figures as 'models' but making them 'a bit' bigger (something which tends to happen to my efforts anyway) should get you in the right ball park. The girlies you've done for your Guard look proportionally right (non-heroic) anyway - and the Japs as a race are usually (though not necessarily accurately) described as smaller than caucasian (27mm?). Edit: I had some of these when I was a kid and from memory they weren't at all bad - it might even be possible to bigify them by 10% ... And another thing - because of the True Line Of Sight mechanic it'd probably be worth having a few spare 'now he's kneeling' and 'now he's lying down' models to take slightly better advantage of the terrain.
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Post by Geifer on Nov 11, 2014 18:34:28 GMT
Well, I couldn't honestly say whether I like them. Bolt Action's models have enough appeal that I spend money on them, which is a lot more than I can say about Warmachine models, for instance. It's just that I haven't seen much of them yet. The Japanese I ordered are still on their way and the Germans and Americans I saw were mostly in the hands of my friends (while I assembled the SdKFZ 251 and farmhouse, and concerned myself with rules questions later). I was too busy having fun to study the models. I can live with models having different height, if it accurately fits into the same scale. No need for everyone to be as tall as everyone else. It would just be a bit awkward if especially head and hand sizes differed a lot, what with those drawing much attention due to standing out against differently colored clothes. Little things like that. I'd like to have continuity within an army. How that measures up against other armies isn't that important as long as I can put them on display and they look like they belong with each other. I don't think I need separate models for different occasions, though. First, I don't play in any seriously competitive environment, but among friends where we can easily reach agreement, and second, a Japanese soldier needs not fear bullets fired by weak-willed western cowards.
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eiglepulper
Aspirant
How to photobomb your cat
Posts: 96
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Post by eiglepulper on Nov 11, 2014 23:29:02 GMT
Warlord is 1/56 scale, GW is more heroic 28mm scale. I'll see if I can get a shot done for you at some stage.
Roger
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Post by Geifer on Nov 13, 2014 12:49:59 GMT
Thanks. That would be helpful.
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Post by Brassaxe on Nov 19, 2014 8:14:03 GMT
I woke up too early this morning and got bored, so I worked out a correction factor for converting 1/72 scale up to 1/56. 72/56=1.2857 or about 1.3 I was expecting about 1.1 to correct 25.4mm to 28mm? So, I multiplied 72 (six foot height in inches) by 25.4mm, divided by 56 and got 32.657mm?? OK, maybe assuming six foot tall soldiers is a bit excessive, I'm 5'10'' and would have no problem describing my height as average so I multiplied 70 by 25.4mm, divided by 56 and got 31.75mm??? So I multiplied 70 by 25.4mm and divided by 28mm giving 1/63.5 scale? (72x25.4)/28 gives about 1/65 scale - is this 1/56 bobbins just a typo that nobody bothered to proof read? ?
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Post by Geifer on Nov 19, 2014 9:15:10 GMT
As the not quite owner of Warlord models, I can't judge them myself (also, I am shocked and disappointed you would do maths in the morning ), but 28mm is from sole to eye, which means you should add another millimeter to the model to get total height. Which in 1/56 would give you a height of 1.63m, give or take. A little small for western folks, perhaps, but perfect Japanese officer material. You should be ok with 28mm to 30mm scale to give accurate height of WW2 humans in 1/56 scale. Can't comment on the rest, see early morning maths statement.
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Post by Brassaxe on Nov 19, 2014 17:53:32 GMT
Well, I did say I woke up too early and got bored So 28mm is soles to 2/3 up their heads And now I've had to divide 1.63 by .0254 to get about 5'4'' which is very much below average height for a caucasian male. Guess I'll just have to buy some of these and measure them myself
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Post by Geifer on Nov 23, 2014 8:51:05 GMT
Well, I finally received my box'o'Japanese. When I have a soldier assembled, I'll tell you how Warlord's plastics measure up. Personally, I find this whole scale thing quite confusing, which is why I generally rely on direct comparison between models, or else I can't really tell what is what...
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Post by Brassaxe on Nov 23, 2014 10:15:19 GMT
So, you won't be needing these then 30mm : Soles to top of helmet 8mm : width of torso at shoulders without arms 3mm : thickness of arms 10mm : Length shoulder to wrist 12mm : inside leg 8mm : width of hips 4mm : width of thigh 6.4mm: length of feet 3mm : width of feet 4.5mm: width of head 5.3mm: height of head without helmet I took the measurements last night but didn't get the photo 'til this morning. Oh, well. They might be of use to someone else but fabricating the weapons would be a real trick Coz they are tiny. The bits are tiny as well, I dropped the officers service revolver holster and I can't find it, and gluing the bits together is fiddly. The British/Colonial set has five basic one-piece legs-and-torsos to pick from and about ten and a half pairs of arms to go at, with a choice of eight heads and six helmets per sprue. Weapons are four Lee-Enfield SMLEs with bayonets fitted, three without bayonets and one with a sniper scope, two Sten SMGs, one Bren, one PIAT, one 2" mortar and two Thompson SMGs for the Canadians. The casts seem reasonably clean, I missed a bit of flash under the 'Brenners' right arm but it only seems to take a quick wipe with a sharp scalpel to clean off, probably best done on the sprue. The fit round the shoulders looks a bit funny in places - hence the Milliput - but generally, it doesn't seem a bad kit.
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Post by Geifer on Nov 24, 2014 12:49:27 GMT
Talk about perfect timing, eh? Thanks for the effort, even if it's a little too late for me. The Japanese charging soldier, the only one on the Japanese sprue that is reasonably straight, stands (as close as I can make out) 30mm tall, which translates to 1.68m in real life. I can live with that, seems like reasonable scaling to me. I like the models, generally speaking. They lack the distorted proportions of GW models, so yeah, the weapons are small, but I don't mind that at all. I favor realism in physical proportions. It does make a couple of things a little fiddly, like heads (especially smooth helmets). The casting quality is indeed quite good, with very little flash.
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Post by Brassaxe on Nov 24, 2014 17:36:02 GMT
Yeah, nothing like perfect timing!
The cast quality reflects a good move on Warlords part, using an established kit manufacturer to produce the bits - the Italeri sprues have 'copyright Warlord Games' cast into them.
The scale's not bad although the heads are oversized and the helmets are way too big. Technically the feet are too big as well although they look about right on the models.
Can't wait to see what you do with them.
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