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Post by Farseer Kyladras on Aug 23, 2014 17:18:42 GMT
Or is it just me? The sheer volume of new codexes, dataslates (whatever the hell they are) has left me feeling light years behind seemingly everyone. I have no idea what armies I might face, where I could find the rules for them etc and the more overwhelmed I feel the more distant from 40k I feel which is a horrible way to feel about the hobby I have loved for so long. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing GW here I just think I must be getting too old for all this and maybe a new gaming system would be better suited to my addled brain  FK |
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Post by paladin7221 on Aug 23, 2014 20:18:30 GMT
I know what you mean about the distance side of things - my enthusiasm for all things GW has just vanished of late - despite buying a bloody Baneblade a few weeks ago and collecting ideas and plans like you wouldn't believe.
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Post by Stretch on Aug 24, 2014 9:11:16 GMT
In that boat too buddy. Not sure whether I've burned myself out, or if the way things have been lately have killed the gaming bug or maybe a combination
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Post by Geifer on Aug 24, 2014 9:38:16 GMT
Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing GW here... Well, you should. We're back to the bad old days of 3rd ed again when rules for a single army would be spread over five different publications, just that everything is more expensive today on top of that. If it was for the good of the game I wouldn't say anything, as in, if the main codex were complete with every option that one expects, and supplements were used to include very divergent or obscure parts of the army, what would there be to complain about? But just yesterday a friend of mine who's a big Space Wolves fan and just had a glance at Champions of Fenris came to me with this "you can't be serious" look and expressed his frustration that he had bought only half a codex with Codex Space Wolves. I think this is worth criticizing more than being overwhelmed with too many publications per se. That in itself is not a bad thing, but it becomes one if GW only cuts things apart to make more money off them. If you want the complete thing, you have to buy the codex, the supplement and two data sheets. If you wanted that same, complete thing a month ago, you bought a single codex and got the same content. Not exactly, but close enough. For me, GW is pushing things in the wrong direction. I had a uninterrupted WD collection since I started in 1996. When WD was turned weekly and given an price increase of 60%, not including the content moved to Visions for another good bit of money per month, I've jumped ship. I bought every single codex since 3rd ed on release day. Yesterday I did not buy Codex Grey Knights. I've yet to buy a single supplement. I cannot even buy an online only codex because I have no iDevice or credit card. I've not even looked at a portion of GW model range since the Finecast debacle. Since the price rises around the same time, I have steadily decreased to backlog of models I wanted to get but didn't have the opportunity, to the point where I can say now that short of a couple of Fantasy Empire models, I have no desire to spend much money on old GW models. As a consequence, yes, I think I am slipping away. For the past half a year, I have been more engaged by single models or the thought of Necromunda gang sized model collections than full sized armies. Ignoring for a moment that I would like a skirmish level game from GW, with continued support, that's really only GW's problem, though. Not mine. I like the background for 40k and Fantasy, I like the models and working on them is still pleasing to me, and I have all the models I ever need to play the games. I am just not generally excited for new releases, though. I like the return of Nagash, because undead and Nagash specifically speak to me, but of the rumored further End Times expansions for Elves, which I collect, and Chaos, which I collect, neither provokes a reaction from me. I read something, and then say to myself that GW isn't going to release anything I like anyway. Could it be good? Yeah, sure. Do I expect it to? Nope. It's starting to get to that point even with the models, whose quality is the one thing I always thought was GW's biggest selling point. Look at Nagash or the Imperial Knight. To me, these models are as close to perfection as I would expect a model to be. GW still produces hits, in my mind. But then look at the disastrous Witch Elves. Zero posing option, with five different models in a box of ten models, for twice the price they should be. They look pretty enough if you get past that, but are totally useless to someone who wants to convert them for other things because their poses are set and very specific, and totally useless for someone who wants to build a big unit or even an army around them because you use the same five models over and over, and that is not even to speak of the associated cost. New Tomb Kings models? People complained about the old bobble head Skeletons, but instead of fixing them, GW goes the way of producing entirely new models whose proportions are in line with models that never were good in the first place. Those Skeletons were around in the Nineties when I started, and i went and bought a box of them for trophy skulls and base decorations. That was way back when they were still beige plastic. You know how many conversions I ended up doing? I ended up ripping the base off my Bloodletter champion because I couldn't get over the size of the skull I put on the base. The next time those Skeletons came out of the bits box was when GW switched Fantasy from FOC slots to percentages at the start of 8th ed over a decade later and I figured I may as well use the Skeletons I have to fill up points, since the models hadn't change one bit in the meantime. It doesn't end there. With very few exceptions, GW has been steadily taking things in a direction I don't agree with. Slowly, to be sure. I'm still here and enjoying myself, but as time goes by, ever more in spite of instead of because of what GW does. |
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Post by badfang on Aug 24, 2014 11:29:28 GMT
Pretty much with Geifer on this one, overwhelmed is not the word I'd be using. I still haven't got round to buying the new ork kodex, or the Sanctus Reach supplement for the rest of the ork kodex or the WD with the other bit of the ork kodex for the looted wagon rules. Of the new model releases - the kanganauts do nothing at all for me, the mek gun pricing is a joke, I might get some flash gits for patterning and bits. This is the first ork kodex release that has resulted in absolutely zero GW purchases from me and they are really going to have to get their brown stuff together before this is likely to change. EDIT - Just been reading the Assassins write-up on BoLS, can't help wondering if Matt Ward left coz even he was too embarrassed. |
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Post by Farseer Kyladras on Aug 24, 2014 16:27:58 GMT
So glad it's not just me guys. It's like every codex that comes out seems to have additional supplements that you need to get right away should you want all the options available. It's the need for an ipad or similar that infuriates me, print the supplement so we can buy it in book form, don't force us to have electronic devices that we don't want to own. Yes I could view them on my laptop but do I want to drag my laptop with me to games and club nights? Not especially no...
As for the white dwarf thing that's something else that's got me as well that I hadn't thought of. I too bought every copy of white dwarf from the late 80s until it went weekly. What stopped me from buying it was the fact that they stopped selling it anywhere other than gw stores or gaming stockists. I have a gw store about 2 miles away but getting time to park up in Chester City centre and actually go there doesn't happen often meaning I only bought the weekly wd twice. I used to buy it from supermarket on my food shopping trip and I think this is adding to my hobby iisolation.
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Post by paladin7221 on Aug 24, 2014 17:16:44 GMT
It doesn't help that, bar some rare discrepancies, both White Dwarf and Visions are completely crap.
If I want pretty pictures of models, I look on the Internet and view Garfy's stuff and others at leisure for cheaper....
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Post by sw1 on Aug 25, 2014 21:35:06 GMT
Yeah ... I'm fed up of being treated like a cash cow by GWS. The rules seem to be getting split up too much so if you want to play say logan wing you now have to get 2 books each costing £30 each. Sorry but I expect it to be in the rules for my army. Everything seems to be chopped up into the smallest possible piece and the sold at daft prices.
Then there's the bath tub pulled by wolves. That single model almost made me rage quit. My first true army has gone from marines with a bit of a Viking flavour to space Vikings who happen to be marines. It's like attempting to make a fine meal flavoured with herbs and spices, but throwing out the main ingredients in favour of 100x as much of the herbs and spices.
I've had a few games of xwing and can see my hobby fix being filled that way instead. Quick simple and fun which is what I want out of a game (I don't have weekends or days to throw away gaming). My dad's also going to be requiring my skills on scratch building scenery for a train layout he wants to do. His plan is to fill a double garage with several linked loops. Might be a bit more work than he envisions but it should be fun.
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Post by ZOG! on Aug 31, 2014 7:14:51 GMT
I've been feeling like this for a while with GW and the only game of 40k I've played was at the mini meet.
That's why I've gone on to WFB
But even that seems to be going the same way.
Still I'm enjoying painting them when I get the chance.
So the question is what do I (we) do about it?
Complaining to GW is like shouting at a rock, moaning on forums is about as effective.
So we find our selves gravitating towards other systems well done GW you have alienated your fan base
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Aug 31, 2014 7:29:41 GMT
The only problem is that going to other stuff is harder to get hold of. It's all ordering online, which is fine, but I find myself finding reasons not to get something because I need to spend more to justify the postage.
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Post by sw1 on Aug 31, 2014 20:19:53 GMT
I'm currently eyeing up the various editions of 40k I've got on the bookshelf and thinking why not just play an older version of the game? May need a few house rules to tweak things and I don't have to spend any more on GWS rules that they'll make invalid in a year or so anyway.
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Post by badfang on Aug 31, 2014 20:51:42 GMT
Better yet(?) read through them all, list what you like about each ed and what you hate about them, post your lists up for discussion and see if we can't hammer out a Last Edition to try out at the next meet?
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Post by Stretch on Aug 31, 2014 21:31:27 GMT
Better yet(?) read through them all, list what you like about each ed and what you hate about them, post your lists up for discussion and see if we can't hammer out a Last Edition to try out at the next meet? Now that is a bloody brilliant idea!!!! |
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Post by sw1 on Sept 1, 2014 9:19:11 GMT
Think we should start off deciding which edition was the most fun to play (least problems) and then use the other editions to try and fix any issues raised.
I've not really played enough of any edition to form a favourite. Lol ... I'd say at best I'm a novice at any edition. Last edition I've probably had barely double figures in games!
So for those who play a lot anyone want to give a very brief overview of the differences? Gonna see if I can google anything.
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Post by haywiregrenade on Sept 1, 2014 15:34:10 GMT
It is true, the volume of releases has been incredibly high of late.
Turn back the clock and it was very peace meal with just maybe 2 new Codexes a year.
But then we complained then as well, so its a tough call really.
I bought my FIRST data slate the other day and shelled out £12 for the interactive Assassins one. Its rather good.
I also only buy on the whole digital codexes now for my iPad.
But given the volume of releases its hard to keep up. The days of "bring and battle" are long dead and GW expect you to administer your own gaming agenda to limit what you should be playing. Eg Battle Forged, unbound, Lords of War, Superheavies, data slates etc etc. Some are more balanced than others, and knowing what someone will bring is now a complete mystery, and the ability to know your enemy is a very tough act to keep up on.
I am trying to still stick with a regular good old fashioned force org when I play, as its what I know. If allowed and agreed, I may throw in an ally or a Lord of War option, but quite often thats to fight fire with fire.
We have a couple of tourney hardened players who like to bring real nasty lists along. Even the Battleforged versions they know can be harsh (triple Wraithknight and 4 Wave Serpents plus 2 units of jet bikes is HARSH to face with a regular balanced list. But equally, they have fielded 9 FMC Nid lists, or a Thunderwolf Cav list with enough psykers to generate Sanctity from the deck. Yes the +1 inv save to your Storm Shield THC giving 2+ inv saved beasts. Again a proper hard list.
BUT, that said, home gaming is on the up round my way, so things are a lot more relaxed, and gaming is what gaming is amongst friends. No competitive rubbish, themed and fun lists full of regular troops.
Just having a Storm Claw box off starting tonight with a mate. To mix it up a bit...paint a side from the boxed set (me Sw, him the Orks) then we will play the full set of missions from the book on it, and then swap sides. It certainly makes a change to the games.
One more thing, playing the tactical objective games is made of WIN. If you have not played them, give it a go. Even the broken cheese lists struggle if you get all the achievable objectives. It becomes crazy tactical and you do things you would never often consider! I had a Murderfang sit on an onbective and out of the game in effect just so i could play the card "if you have 3 or more objectives get D3 points". Who does that normally?!
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