Interesting things you've noticed in new rules?

[Farseer Kyladras]

Or good/ bad/ weird things, discuss here (without actually infringing copyright by quoting the rules of course!

Shooting: now seems to be perfectly valid for a (as an example) space marine squad with a lascannon model to use the cannon to pop a transport then the rest of his squad to shoot the survivors of the transport should it blow up given that weapon types in each squad are fully resolved before moving to the next weapon, I really like this rule

So let's post in here interesting little things you've discovered...

FK

[Stretch]

I'd missed that bit but sternguard just got a bit of a boost if it's true.

So did my wolves as it happens

[haywiregrenade]

Not sure thats how I read it FK?
Yes weapons are done as groups with separate pools of wounds etc, and as before you can assault the stuff that gets out of a destroyed transport, but shooting itself is still simultaneous.
Therefore the lascannon and bolters would have to all shoot the vehicle at the same time, its just your pool of dice from the bolters would do nothing.

Weird things I have noticed though is that lots of things now score, including swarms unless specifically stated in their codex that they don't. Whoch I think in most cases was a lot of the older ones that just said unit type "swarm" and "cannot score" rather than the newer books loch just give them the swarm special rule - see main rule book approach.

Playing my first 7th Ed on Friday...

[Farseer Kyladras]

But the rules specify that you should completely resolve each set of weapons before moving on to the next so that seems to clash with the idea of all the shooting happening simultaneously. let's hope they faq this and soon...

FK

[Geifer]

You resolve each weapon (group) individually, but all after selecting the target unit, FK. Have a look at the steps box for the shooting phase. Pick a unit that shoots, pick a target, select a weapon (group), resolve shooting from the weapon (group), go back to the step of selecting a weapon (group). You don't go back to selecting a target unit for your shooting unit, you just cycle through your unit's weapons until everyone had their chance to shoot. The target does not change.

[Farseer Kyladras]

Ah Ok probably better otherwise a tac squad with lascannon could wipe out a transport and it's contents. I just read it that once the transport was popped the troops inside were still the same target (transport and contents)

FK

[Geifer]

I think, although I can't check it right now, that the transport rules evene specifically state that a unit cannot destroy a transport and then damage the disembarking passengers. Something along the lines of the small arms guys give covering fire and such while the big gun kills the tank, or somesuch. But don't quote me on that.

[Farseer Kyladras]

Cool thanks for the clarification guys, I haven't read the transport rules yet I just got excited after reading that in the shooting rules lol

FK

[haywiregrenade]

Yeah imagine that could be quite powerful of you could take a vehicle and its contents from a single phase and single unit...imagine the builds people would use with Veterans or whatever taking multimeltas and plasma combos to really give something a bad day.

[Max_Dammit]

Could a unit of Longfangs target the unit inside and the transport

Say 2 lascannons on the tank and heavy bolters on the unit inside, I think not be-course they have no line of sight to the target. As far as I know you have to declare target even in split fire before the first weapon is fired.

[Geifer]

Correct. There are only two ways a unit can damage both a transport and its passengers:

1. Just like before, by shooting up the transport and assaulting the disembarking unit.

2. Using a flamer on an open topped transport.

Long Fangs (who have their own split fire rule) must declare splitting fire and which weapon targets which unit before shooting gets resolved, which prevents them from targetting both the unit inside the transport and the transport itself (as you say, at the time of declaring attacks, there's no LOS). The split fire USR explicitly rules out shooting a unit forced to disembark from destroying it with the split shot.

[Max_Dammit]

Vector strike being the only exception to the rule

[paladin7221]

So is what I've always believed wrong? Because I was under the impression that a Land Speeder with multi-melta and heavy flamer could use the melta to bust the transport and then the flamer to roast whatever came running out of it.

[haywiregrenade]

Yup thats wrong Paladin. A Unit with multiple weapons with any kind of fire rule must make all its shots at the same time as declaring the target.
Split fire - i elect A to shoot X and B to shoot Y. Roll both now, resolve both results on each targets now.
Same as Machine Spirit - The vehicle must declare all of its shots at multiple targets at the same time. You cannot elect to shoot a lascannon sponson at a tank, see it fail, then elect the other one to shoot the same target after you see the dice rolls for example.
Shooting is always and has always been simultaneous, but for ease of seeing the results, you typically roll one thing at a time unless you have a bunch of multicoloured dice and can remember what you need on each!

[Farseer Kyladras]

I still haven't had time to read much of the new book but shooting each type of weapon and resolving the effects before moving to next one is great, really simplifies what weapons can kill at what range.

FK