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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 18, 2013 9:29:48 GMT
So I noticed that no one has posted anything in here yet and that got me thinking. Most of what we seem to be doing is Sci-Fi. That in turn started giving me a craving for some fantasy games and models.
The obvious is Warhammer, I do like the models but the rules aren't the best and the thought of painting up 40+ models for a single regiment fills me with dread.
Next could be Kings of War, but nothing has particularly jumped out at me and once again I seem to going down the line of skirmish games lately.
That then is were i come up blank... So what do you guys recommend?
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 18, 2013 9:43:27 GMT
Just remembered one to answer my own question: Bushido
Not the fantasy I think I'm craving though...
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Post by Harkon Greywolf on Oct 18, 2013 9:49:05 GMT
Ogres! If you paint 40 of them you'd have nearly 2 armies! LOL HG
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Post by Farseer Kyladras on Oct 18, 2013 10:18:34 GMT
Ogres! If you paint 40 of them you'd have nearly 2 armies! LOL HG Skaven! If you paint 400 of them you'd have nearly 2 armies! Seriously though, now my `mojo` is back I will add my unpainted Skaven army to my `to do` list and hopefully get some fantasy gaming done as well, I love the idea of fantasy (especially the magic!) FK
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Post by Geifer on Oct 18, 2013 11:16:19 GMT
I can't say about other fantasy games, but I can give you a couple of opinions on Warhammer Fantasy as I play that frequently again since last year.
Army size:
This is a GW game with all the common quirks, and as HG has already mentioned, there are low model count armies such as Ogres for those not inclined painting a gazillion and one models. There's more variety next to Ogres, too. High Elves to some extent, Dark Elves for sure, and Warriors of Chaos offer elite models that perform well in small units. Especially the latter have the durability to withstand many things that just kill regiments of human-like troops. Dark Elves, on the other hand, are typically elves, but have the raw killing power that limits their numbers through high points cost even if they die to a breeze (doesn't need to be stiff). Then you have something like Daemons where you can spend plenty of points in monsters and won't have left over all that many points to put into troops. Bretonnia, though not advisable do to the army books age, and Empire can make all cavalry armies if that is your sort of thing. With your cheapest troops coming at 25pts per model, you can do the math if that amounts to regiments of forty models. My guess is it won't.
Of course playing the obvious horde armies will require lots of models. Footsoldier Empire is very different to Knight Empire. Marauder Warriors of Chaos require loads of models, but actual Warriors or a Chaos Troll list don't. At 2000pts you need 500pts to fill out your Core. Dark and High Elves have Spearmen that you would need fifty of to get there. Dark Elf Crossbowmen? Dishing out the pain from afar and you only need around thirty five. Light cavalry, both for High Elves and Dark Elves, costs even more and you can easily mix them with foot troops for as small a Core detachment as thirty models, or even fewer. Consider that Marines should have thirty models in Troops at 1500pts and this number isn't bad at all.
I'm not as versed with Lizardmen, but I think the same is true for them to a point. Saurus are cheap, Skinks are even cheaper, but the latter can include Kroxigors so you can, I think, put a lot of points in Ogre equivalents if you wish.
Effectivity:
Maybe I'm playing a different game than anyone else, but my Warriors of Chaos and my Dark Elves simply do not need huge units. The former use units of twelve (to please Slaanesh), and the army consists of a grand total of forty three models at 2000pts. To draw on the Marine comparison again, this is the model count I'd advise you have at 1500pts. So much for Fantasy requiring more models than 40k. To the point, this army does very well for me. Small unit size is good for maneuverability, magic gives a fair ranged advantage (at least for Slaanesh, can't say about the others), favor of the gods table can make powerful characters even more powerful and tactics do the rest. I've faced everything from other small units to massive hordes, Ogre deathstars and a full Ogre tournament list (which happened to utilize small units as well rather than the bloated ones Internet wisdom wants to sell you as the 8th ed thing) and I always come out on top. My fledgling Dark Elves will be composed in a similar manner. Even if they play somewhat differently, exchanging durability for immense shooting power, I don't think they will need high model count units to perform well.
I'd say it's all in the tactics. Large units are not dominating. Killing plenty of models is hard, but not the only way to destroy units in Fantasy. Small footprint units (or especially powerful characters can take on units several times their size by denying the opponent many of their attacks by not making base contact with the entire unit. At some point you only buy more models to be killed, but that add no offensive power. You can use this against such big units. Therefore I wouldn't advise making a decision for or against Fantasy based on the perceived number of models required. Unless you want a very specific army, Fantasy actually allows you more flexibility in unit and army composition that it is generally given credit for.
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 18, 2013 11:26:30 GMT
All very good points there. When I initially looked into Warhammer I went with Bretonnians. But as you say the book is at least 2 editions old now and when I played a trial game with the latest edition they got utterly pasted, when before I would've done a lot more damage.
As other races go I do love the Lizardmen models, especially the new big dinosaurs, and Wood Elves. Again their book is old but rumours have it they'll be re-done next year.
Once again though I don't know what I want, but just something different to 40k etc and to get something "new".
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Post by ZOG! on Oct 18, 2013 11:37:11 GMT
Well i've just looked into rules and there are some sweet skirmish games that let you use 'any' models with rules for Creating the stats. I will investigate further and let you guys know... Mainly cause i just found out my old confrontation undead models and they are sweet!
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Post by sw1 on Oct 18, 2013 12:40:50 GMT
I'm thinking of dabbling with some WHFB stuff as break from painting PA models. VC's are really easy to paint quickly and suit a sloppy paint job. Clean and neat zombies/skeletons just don't happen. You just need minimum Core and then everything else is fairly expensive points wise. Lol ... And you don't have to have full units either. My Zombie units have full front ranks but the further back you go the more it's zombies pulling themselves out of the ground. Makes a very cinematic looking unit and seriously drops the £ cost of the unit as well.
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 18, 2013 12:45:05 GMT
I think what would be good for something like this is if a few people from the local club would do the "Tale of" deal. Limit spending on a box then a set amount of money a month and get them painted and play games with what we have. Certainly give me the incentive to do something new and get them painted.
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Post by Farseer Kyladras on Oct 18, 2013 12:58:35 GMT
Why not do it on here Paul? We could do a `tale of fantasy gamers` type thing on here for inspiration, I would be up for that! FK
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 18, 2013 13:08:23 GMT
Why not do it on here Paul? We could do a `tale of fantasy gamers` type thing on here for inspiration, I would be up for that! FK If people would want to, that'd be great. The only down side is not being able to play against each other. I've been thinking it over in my mind just now too. Sort of thing I was thinking is say £100 for the first month (enough for a battalion and lord/hero, excluding essentials like army book etc), then £30 for each subsequent month with the ability to "save" some back to get bigger models. Getting points for getting stuff painted and games played. The only other criteria is that it needs to be an army you don't previously own, so brand new for everyone!
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Post by Farseer Kyladras on Oct 18, 2013 13:32:48 GMT
That would count me out then I'm afraid as any spare cash I did have would be used to add to my relatively small Eldar army. The only fantasy armies I would be interested in starting are Skaven (due to already having a fair few models) and vampire counts (of which I have very little)
FK
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 18, 2013 13:42:11 GMT
Well it's not likely to start right away, as I shouldn't get stuff right now either. Maybe in the new year? Literally 1st January?
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Post by sw1 on Oct 18, 2013 13:50:03 GMT
I'd possibly be up for this, though I'd be using models I've already got rather than buying new ones.
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 18, 2013 14:02:15 GMT
Well could do it that if you have the models but not painted then those would be that month's purchases...
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