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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 29, 2013 12:22:46 GMT
So Beasts of War have a Kings of War Week going on and I watched a couple of their videos today.
The background sounds cool and the models are nice, then I got to the demo game video. The game itself is carbon copied from Warhammer with the main differences in attacking and damage. Basically rolling off against the enemy stat with no actual armour saves existing. This is all fine and makes for the game to be quick.
However, I don't like the way damage happens. Basically when a unit is damaged it receives a marker, at the end of the phase the unit takes a nerve test akin to leadership, fine not a problem with that. If the unit fails and routs it is distroyed, again fine. If it passes that's it, it keeps the token and that accumulates.
Now the problem I have is that no models are removed, attacks don't change or anything like that. You either do enough damage to rout the enemy or it stays with all it's members until it gets to a point that it'll rout by default. To me it means that the models aren't needed other than for movement and they might as well just be a cardboard wedge for all they matter as individual pieces.
Anyone disagree?
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Post by Harkon Greywolf on Oct 29, 2013 12:24:44 GMT
Sounds about right, and as such sounds like a "kid's version" of WFB.
Dumbed down to the "all or nothing" principle!
HG
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 29, 2013 12:41:25 GMT
It's disappointing to hear about, as warpath doesn't do it that way but uses the same nerve check. They do take model casualties and effects the fighting strength of the unit.
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Post by ghostwalker on Oct 29, 2013 13:03:17 GMT
I have 2 Kings of war armies and to be honest it is a fun game and modellers dream.
No it isn't wfb but then we dont need another one.
It plays fast and is easy to learn. It is more about making combats run in your favour rather than having a deathstar unit or obliterating everything with the power of a match and high velocity fart.
I like the fact that regiments fight until they are destroyed and it can be over very quickly if your not savvy enough to see the dangers.
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 29, 2013 13:08:50 GMT
Looking at the rules that are on Mantic's site (free download) for both Kings of War and Warpath, I can see a pattern. They still have the 1st edition army lists for Warpath and it looks like they used to have a similar mechanic, so the bigger the unit the more attacks it has and more nerve it's got. But for second edition they've done away with that in favour of the much more obvious each model getting 1 attack and a solid nerve. It does however make it essentially the same as the 40k leadership test except that the unit has degrees of success.
Maybe Kings of war will go the same way if/when they release a 2nd edition...
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 29, 2013 13:13:00 GMT
I have 2 Kings of war armies and to be honest it is a fun game and modellers dream. No it isn't wfb but then we dont need another one. It plays fast and is easy to learn. It is more about making combats run in your favour rather than having a deathstar unit or obliterating everything with the power of a match and high velocity fart. I like the fact that regiments fight until they are destroyed and it can be over very quickly if your not savvy enough to see the dangers. Do a full review then maybe?  |
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Post by ZOG! on Oct 29, 2013 15:00:21 GMT
They do have a 2nd edition its in my Backroom in hardback form...
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Post by Farseer Kyladras on Oct 29, 2013 17:53:15 GMT
I have to say that after looking briefly through the rulebook it is more or less (as stated above) a carbon copy ripoff of the warhammer fantasy game, certainly from a point of view of available races/ units etc (of course it could be easily said that GW are hardly original with orcs, elves and suchlike not invented by them) but one thing GW do excel at is the game fluff/ background, the 40k fluff is simply unmatched by any other system (in my humble opinion) and the fantasy fluff looks to be fairly in depth as well. Really can't see me taking up KoW, I will be learning the fantasy rules to go along with my upcoming Skaven army for our fantasy blog though! FK |
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Post by Geifer on Oct 30, 2013 7:55:59 GMT
Well, if what I read is true (you in possession of a book with credits will know) a lot of old GW staff are working for Mantic, so who can blame them for making something so similar?
Of course that means I have no need for such a game. I'm already playing Warhammer, as long as that's around I don't need a close alternative.
Also from what's said above, I don't like the idea of models never getting taken off the table individually. I very much like the visual effect of armies shrinking due to casualties. That's part of the fun for me. A full sized regiment with a ton of counters next to it is really not my thing.
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 30, 2013 9:01:06 GMT
Same as my thinking, and yes it's Alessio Cavatore who wrote it. So as far as Mantic is concerned Dreadball is awesome along with Deadzone (both written by Jake Thornton). So I'm very happy with those!
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Post by Geifer on Oct 30, 2013 9:03:49 GMT
Ah, yes. Jake Thornton, a name I remember. Alession, too, but of course he's not been gone that long.
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 30, 2013 9:08:47 GMT
Yeah, I thought Alessio penned a relatively recent edition of 40k or wfb...
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Post by Geifer on Oct 30, 2013 9:16:04 GMT
I think that'll be 7th ed Fantasy. Might have also had a hand in 5th ed 40k, though I can't quite remember. 8th ed Fantasy and 6th ed 40k saw Ward take over as one of the main writers attributed, along with Adam Troke and Jervis. You definitely see a change in direction in both editions, and a change for the better, too, if you ask me.
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Post by Lord Draconiroth on Oct 30, 2013 9:32:33 GMT
I can't really compare fantasy as I've not played enough of either yet, but I do think that 6th of 40k could very well be the best version. Things just make so much more sense, without dumbing it down too much.
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Post by Geifer on Oct 30, 2013 9:56:47 GMT
As far as I'm concerned 8th ed Fantasy is far superior to 7th ed because it is less predictable. I started Fantasy in 7th ed (so had no past experience). After two years I could predict how a game would end right after deployment, to the point where I had some opponents where I could make detailed predictions of entire turns. It was very dull and most of my group simply stopped playing Fantasy because it had nothing to offer compared to 40k (5th ed at the time). The current editions are superior in that they allow for events further along the game to make a significant difference. You have to think tactically throughout the entre game, whereas before you had to write your army list and set up and then things would only very rarely swing around anymore. That's my experience anyway. As you say, 6th ed 40k feels like it makes sense, and I think one can make a comparable statement for 8th ed Fantasy.
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